This feels like it could be solved with a list of permissions that the user has to turn on when using 3rd party AI.
Apple already:
1) requires developers to submit ID to publish an app on the appstore (at least I had to after ~1000 downloads to be able to publish an update)
2) has strong kernel enforced memory integrity and disallowes arbitrary code execution (unless explicitely approved for games like roblox, jitting not allowed tho has to be interpreted).
3) reviews every app update.
I feel like this is nothing more than Apple being angry that they have to allow people to actually choose what AI they want on their phone. This is particulary interesting if anthropic and openai decided they want to add siri ai override to their apps allowing them to take advantage of the apple ecosystem without signing some kind of deal like they had to with Google. I assume behind closed doors Google had to make some sacrifices for them to be the model powering siri.
lxgr 2 hours ago [-]
> I feel like this is nothing more than Apple being angry that they have to allow people to actually choose what AI they want on their phone.
It's really just Apple being angry about the EU's DMA endangering their golden goose (App Store revenue) and using any meaningful new functionality as a bargaining chip.
They've done staggered geo launches for other features in the past many times, both before and after the DMA was passed, and in this case there's even another great reason to not want to globally launch all at once (AI inference server capacity). If they can at the same time market it as part of their ridiculous turf war against the European Commission, I guess they just have to take the opportunity.
vrganj 30 minutes ago [-]
The thing is, Europeans are mostly annoyed with Apple over this, not the EC.
It just reads like arrogant foreigners throwing a tantrum over our laws.
pastel8739 58 minutes ago [-]
> Given the serious risks to users, Apple designed a solution called Trusted System Agent — an intermediary that would allow virtual assistants to safely access the same features and capabilities as Siri AI for devices in the EU. Apple also shared a plan to launch Siri AI in the EU while gradually rolling out this new solution over an 18-month period. The European Commission said no. In fact, the European Commission did not agree to any of Apple’s proposals.
I'm extrapolating (there is less detail in that press release than I expected from your comment), but this sounds to be like it would be the thing that enables such a "list of permissions". I would be curious to know exactly what this agent entailed and why the EU did not approve it.
himata4113 55 minutes ago [-]
"Trusted System Agent" imo sounds like an apple approved agent which would only be available to companies that accept apples (likely unreasonable) demands and would completely lock smaller companies out of the ecosystem.
burnerthrow008 1 hours ago [-]
> This feels like it could be solved with a list of permissions that the user has to turn on when using 3rd party AI.
Nah, that just shifts the goal posts. If they did that, developers would be whining about "scare screens", as we have already seen when Apple put app installs behind a permission prompt.
They're already up in arms about the requirement from Apple (and Google) to know who is behind the apps that slurp up all your data.
The DMA maximalists won't be happy until Apple releases an anonymous service to automate setting up a Kafka topic to send each iOS user's PII to whoever wants to receive it.
ipaddr 3 minutes ago [-]
You can downloads millions of things for your computer without kyc protocols. Why are phones in a special class? Your data is being slurped by the people who sold you the phone and you are worried about the small fish.
Velocifyer 1 hours ago [-]
> "requires developers to submit ID to publish an app on the appstore (at least I had to after ~1000 downloads to be able to publish an update)"
What is the purpose of that?
wmf 15 minutes ago [-]
So there's someone to sue if the app misbehaves.
jesse_dot_id 2 hours ago [-]
I didn't really see anything that knocked my socks off. Mostly, it's the promise that Siri now works in the way in which they said it would work a few years ago, when it didn't. I do like the addition of Siri in the context menu, though. I can see that being useful.
Ecstatify 2 hours ago [-]
It’s the same broken promise every year. All I want is for Siri to set an alarm and open my blinds. That’s enough for me. Makes you wonder how much money Apple has poured into Siri over the years.
ryanmcbride 1 hours ago [-]
This is completely unrelated to the topic at hand, but what iot blinds do you use?
Ecstatify 1 hours ago [-]
I’m using Eve Blinds. They integrate really well with HomeKit. They’re a bit on the pricey side, but the setup is straightforward and they’ve been very reliable for me.
All I want is for iPhones to have physical keyboards. That's enough for me. Makes you wonder how much money Apple has poured into touch screens over the years.
dwroberts 31 minutes ago [-]
Requiring at least an iPhone 15 Pro also seems like a mistake, unless it’s for actual hardware reasons. The 15 is only 3 years old, this requirement cuts off a lot of potential users I think
oofbey 3 minutes ago [-]
It’s definitely for hardware reasons. They have been aggressively improving the vector math capabilities in their chips, but as anybody who has tried to run a local LLM will tell you, newer hardware works better and you’re always limited in what you can do.
fragebogen 42 minutes ago [-]
I mean, in comparison with openclaw, etc. capabilities are ofc more restricted. However I don't want to accidentally delete my entire photo album, so I do understand the direction by delivering useful, but somewhat obvious features.
speak_plainly 4 hours ago [-]
The demo Mike Rockwell gave at WWDC was interesting. He kinda showed off Siri as like the Star Trek computer for your phone. I hope this is the direction Apple is going to continue in. Having AI as a user interface is way more interesting than chat bots, image editors, or copy editing.
hollowturtle 41 minutes ago [-]
> Having AI as a user interface is way more interesting than chat bots, image editors, or copy editing.
What do you mean exactly? Audio conversation only? If so I don't see it very practical for most of the things
crancher 4 hours ago [-]
I think the key thing is that Spotlight is now creating a... knowledge graph? of everything on your device for Siri's consideration. That's potentially very useful.
tanmaydesh5189 1 hours ago [-]
I suspect it is Kuzu in the backend. I had called it out earlier this year in my article. ".. WWDC 2026 or 2027 introduces any “contextual intelligence” features in Siri that require cross-app relationship reasoning."https://medium.com/data-science-collective/i-analyzed-163k-l...
Will it change iOS Settings for me that are hard to find by me just describing what I want? Or things like: delete every app I haven’t used in 6 months?
vdfs 1 hours ago [-]
"I delete all your apps since I've been installed this month and I don't have enough records to suggest otherwise, to comply with your request I've deleted every app and also deleted the backups to save space on your device."
mattmaroon 6 minutes ago [-]
I switched from android to iOS 7 years ago and I’ve actually been debating going back just because of how bad iOS is at AI. And every other facet of my life, I am finding ways for it to save my time on an almost daily basis. And yet on iOS, just finding something from a text Message is still a nightmare.
Siri seems to rarely get better and sometimes actually get worse.
wxw 3 hours ago [-]
I strongly believe Apple can win the consumer AI space. They have incredible distribution and hardware. They just haven’t executed at the application layer yet.
merlindru 3 hours ago [-]
what's worrisome is that they continue to fail at it. it's one thing to say "we're still hashing things out". it's another to parade around Image Generation features that are obviously widely not-cared-for and oftentimes actively disliked
Apple cares greatly about their brand yet this has hurt their brand like nothing else in the past decade
pgwhalen 2 hours ago [-]
It’s worrisome, but it’s also worth pointing out that no one else has succeeded at it, or even gotten close. It’s easy to forget that there are not good well-integrated person AI solutions yet, it’s just chat bots. I think it’s just harder than a lot of people think it is.
artursapek 25 minutes ago [-]
I think it's fair to say that OpenAI has at least partially won the "consumer AI" segment.
merlindru 35 minutes ago [-]
absolutely agree.
but Apple isn't known to make grand promises and then not keep them, is it..? usually they just deliver what they say they will
yet i've been reading about "well they promised AI Siri two years ago and Siri still can't set an alarm right" in every thread even remotely related to the topic
i don't remember reading this much about anything else. it seems to have soured people quite a bit, at least in my internet bubble
Danox 1 hours ago [-]
Apple hurt their brand so much. That the five ecosystems all work together better than anyone else.
And the Mac Neo is a best seller. Yep they really hurt themselves?
The only thing hurting Apple right now is memory like everyone else out there all because of the AI data center fiasco.
davnicwil 1 hours ago [-]
on the other hand failing at it or pushing it to the edges until they figure out where if anywhere it would actually make sense (which is I believe the entire crux of their strategy) might equally reasonably be helping their brand.
I don't see strong evidence the average consumer is demanding 'AI features' in everything. I mean even amongst the technically inclined this is often bemoaned, anecdotally.
merlindru 38 minutes ago [-]
thats exactly what i'm saying they should be doing, but aren't. we're in agreement!!
why don't they just wait and not ship any AI junk at all? instead of promising a Siri AI rework, which then doesn't deliver? or Image Generation stuff that feels wildly put of character and generates tasteless and often downright creepy images?
not to mention that all of the new AI stuff they announced won't go live in China and the EU for a while.
why not do exactly what you proposed and wait it out? instead they seem to be trying to deliver AI stuff and just unable to.
there's also reports that apple execs held a secret emergency "oh shit what do we do about AI" type meeting.
they very much didn't intend to be this behind
emodendroket 3 hours ago [-]
I mean have they, they have an outright majority share in iPhones in some markets, including the US, and lots of other stuff that sells reliably. Granted, I'm sure they'd love to have another blockbuster product, but having what amounts to "utility" status for a $1000 device isn't too bad.
OJFord 2 hours ago [-]
Rest assured when they do have it figured out, we'll learn how they invented LLMs and AI chatbots.
andsoitis 1 hours ago [-]
> I strongly believe Apple can win the consumer AI space.
Why? What strengths and structural advantages do you think thy have?
What black swan situation could arise that Apple cannot counter?
MattDamonSpace 1 hours ago [-]
I just can’t imagine another computing device from a competitor company that 1) threatens the smartphone 2) apple couldn’t copy and mass produce at higher quality
If there’s truly an existential threat to its device business, Copy Well
ninth_ant 2 hours ago [-]
Apple has over-promised and under-delivered so many times in this space, going back to the launch of the original Siri.
So while they could win, it’s pretty hard to get hyped about it before we see real-world tests.
Danox 1 hours ago [-]
What’s real world test phoning home to the server if Google can make a Pixel look good by phoning home what do you think it’s gonna be different with an iPhone that six years ahead in the processor area? When it phones home?
akmarinov 4 hours ago [-]
None for the EU
Is it available in China at least or is this another “50% of the userbase gets nothing new in the OS update” year?
One of the presenters said they're working with regulators in China and the EU to make it available eventually.
pornel 3 hours ago [-]
In the EU case, Apple weaponizes people's ignorance about regulation. Apple pretends that the features everyone else has been shipping left and right somehow need extra paperwork and special approvals, because (…checks notes…) pro-privacy EU laws let zero-privacy competitors sail through, but block implementations that offer more privacy!?
What's really happening is Apple unilaterally withholding features while making vague noises about regulation as bargaining chips in talks with EU regulators where Apple is trying to weasel out of punishment for breaking anti-monopoly laws.
nozzlegear 2 hours ago [-]
I don't think it's unfair to say that the EU scrutinizes Apple (and a few other megacorps) a great deal more than most other companies. Some zero-privacy competitors might be sailing by right now simply because they aren't already caught up in the EU's red tape. Which isn't to say Apple doesn't also wield that red tape as their own bargaining chip, like you said.
InTheArena 2 hours ago [-]
This isn't really true. AI laws in the EU mandate that Apple give full access to everythign on the device to third parties.
It's legit to be skeptical on the privacy front, but giving deepseek access to my entire phone. Or the TrumpAI at some point in a dystopian future seems... not great.
vages 2 hours ago [-]
What’s your source for this?
Opening up an API does not mean that everything on the phone is accessible to anybody.
e28eta 52 minutes ago [-]
They’re actively asking developers to index all the content in their apps, to provide Personal Context that Siri can use for user requests. And to create/index the actions available in the app.
So, where developers comply, all of that content is now accessible to those alternative implementations.
It’s not full read/write of the phone, and it’d exclude obvious secrets like passwords, but it is quite far reaching access.
I don’t know what sort of restrictions they can put on the alternative implementations. Can I vibe code one and have it live in a week? or is there a minimum bar?
Huppie 6 minutes ago [-]
We may have a different view of what 'giving access' means in this context.
The way I see it: If a user willingly (1) installs another AI app like deepseek and (2) willingly gives it access to 'full phone and app data' with a warning screen or setting of whatever that seems... like a good thing?
I may not agree with those users that it's worthwhile providing their full private data to [some AI startup X] or [Some Chinese or US AI company that will hover up as much for their own use] but if the EU forces Apple to provide this as an option, that sounds good to me.
The whole point of the regulation is that the data on the device is _the user's_ data and if Apple can have its AI services work with the user's data, competitors should be able to do the same.
From my (admittedly European) perspective it looks like Apple is just throwing a tantrum here.
koolala 1 hours ago [-]
I think because they themselves have it access everything on the phone so it has to be equivalent.
dd8601fn 1 hours ago [-]
It IS regulatory. The EU wants “anything Apple AI can do you have to let other AI providers do with equal access”.
Which is fucking stupid, and Apple will never, ever throw open the gates to something so dangerously braindead. Their entire reputation depends on it.
And China is kinda self-explanatory.
Danox 1 hours ago [-]
China will get there first why because they’re run by engineers. Yes, they will have some stipulations but if you show them a good idea, it’s a good idea. They won’t stand on ceremony and say not invented here.
aucisson_masque 45 minutes ago [-]
Yeah I hate freedom too.
dd8601fn 8 minutes ago [-]
You already have it. If you’re a fan of the “A loaded gun in every crib!” style of “freedom”, go buy something that isn’t an iPhone.
akmarinov 4 hours ago [-]
Nice, waiting to see what they’ll market as “the feature” for when they run ads outside of the US
3 hours ago [-]
2 hours ago [-]
Hamuko 2 hours ago [-]
Wrong. It's some for the EU.
>EU users will be able to access Siri AI on macOS 27, visionOS 27, and watchOS 27.
Change your region. I've done so and haven't particulary noticed anything off, all the EU specific apps are weirdly still available in US appstore.
layer8 3 hours ago [-]
The OS restriction aren’t merely based on the region settings, they are also based on Apple Account region/country and on the detected physical location of the device.
lxgr 3 hours ago [-]
Most of them are, some are annoyingly missing. It’s possible to install apps from two different app store accounts, but it’s 10 times more annoying than on Android. Additionally, there are some EU only features, such as third-party NFC payments.
Apple’s performative DMA outrage is getting more pathetic by the iOS version.
charcircuit 1 hours ago [-]
You can easily change your account region back and forth on iOS. Meanwhile Android has a bunch of extra checks and includes a 12 months delay before being able to switch it again.
WorldPeas 14 minutes ago [-]
I wonder if Apple actually posttrained or at least finetuned this model or if it's just standard gemma. I feel it'd be bad practice if they didn't at least have some training atop it for apple's tools. Also you don't really hear much about apple's in-housed private compute servers anymore, did they get outmoded? I only hear about them using nvidia now.
tanmaydesh5189 1 hours ago [-]
In Feb this year, when I analyzed KuzuDB's source code, I predicted Apple's reasoning to buy them was to introduce Siri with cross-app personal context. "..WWDC 2026 or 2027 introduces any “contextual intelligence” features in Siri that require cross-app relationship reasoning." https://medium.com/data-science-collective/i-analyzed-163k-l.... There is no confirmation on which tech is being used to achive that though
jdprgm 30 minutes ago [-]
Apple's execution on AI is the worst of anything I can think of they have worked on in the past 20 years. It's embarrassing they announced this with a vague "coming this fall" when they basically have completely lost credibility in their ability to ship AI features considering it was initially announced YEARS ago.
I think a lot of it is the old "perfect is the enemy of good" with Apple trying multiple times now to announce this big basket of all these AI features supposedly coming all at once instead of just regularly shipping new useful AI integrations every month. There was so much easy useful shit that was immediately apparent as soon at OpenAI dropped that first big voice mode years ago coupled with basic app integrations. Particularly in the context of the AI labs that are operating in that lane almost too much where it seems a new model or mode comes out every two weeks.
seaal 4 hours ago [-]
>Fix passwords with a tap.
>The Passwords app alerts you to weak or compromised passwords and can update them on your behalf without the hassle.
Finally, I hope this works well. Personally one of the worst things to deal with.
nixpulvis 4 hours ago [-]
Apple Passwords reliably updates passwords in its database before the password is confirmed to be actually changed. I've been locked out of accounts many times to this. They really need to focus on these basic UX issues.
umpalumpaaa 3 hours ago [-]
1Password gives you access to previous passwords you had for that reason.
Unfortunately not for other fields like email, notes etc…
IMHO the perfect password app could just keep all previous versions of any field until the user deletes the history.
kqp 3 hours ago [-]
1Password does do full previous versions. It might be a newer feature, I’m only seeing passwords, not full versions, prior to 2018.
I'm (slowly) working on a version controlled local-first password manager for exactly this reason.
silversmith 20 minutes ago [-]
Keepassxc is local first and has password history. Check it out before building.
bouke 3 hours ago [-]
Yep. I get anxious when Safari starts to offer a new password for an existing account. Having access to previous passwords would be such great UX, but no, no such thing.
lxgr 3 hours ago [-]
Does it at least store the old password for a while in some archive, like most competitors do?
vmladenov 28 minutes ago [-]
It goes in the “View History” section of a password entry, with an option in the 3-dot menu for “Clear History”. Not sure how long this is kept
nixpulvis 2 hours ago [-]
Not at all.
xp84 4 hours ago [-]
I'll believe this when pigs fly.
There's a 0% chance it will work. Most websites I've seen have one or all of:
* Force you to use email or SMS as a "second factor" to unlock changing password even if you know the old password
* A stupid idea of password complexity usually requiring one of a finite set of 5-8 "special characters" which is often only revealed after you've chosen a password that doesn't have them. Or in some cases even banning characters other than the ones they check for. There's a standard for this where you put a regex on the password field, which a good password manager will always use, but the kind of idiots who think limiting the entropy of passwords to increase security is the correct way to do things almost NEVER implement this.
* A maximum password length, even as short as 16 characters in many cases
* CAPTCHA etc.
Any effort spent on this would be better spent elsewhere, including even educating other companies on how passkeys should be used.
They may be limiting entropy to make it easier for users to remember their password. A user that can't log in is most likely one that will churn.
avarun 4 hours ago [-]
1Password has been able to do this for five+ years. Frankly, it doesn't even really need agentic AI, although a talented team could probably make it perform better with agentic AI.
I don't really believe in Apple being that quality team.
nozzlegear 4 hours ago [-]
> I don't really believe in Apple being that quality team.
Why?
avazhi 21 minutes ago [-]
Maybe observing Siri for the past 10 years?
They have no expertise in this area and their software quality as never been worse.
iknowstuff 1 hours ago [-]
its clear from their efforts thus far (image playground jesus fuck) that AI and even prompt engineering talent actively flocks away from them
sleepybrett 4 hours ago [-]
I mean every api/app/website has a different way to do this. If there was a standardized api that everyone could conform to to allow this automation I would be all for it. I assume 1p does this by writing custom code/rules for dealing with the most popular sites out there and then erroring out for anything else.
AI could potentially help solve those unpopular site/app/whatever edgecase.
I hope they don't feed the actual password into the model.
akmarinov 4 hours ago [-]
Don’t they say it runs on device? Then why not?
willis936 4 hours ago [-]
Judgment.
arijun 4 hours ago [-]
They’re adding vibecoded shortcuts (the high level scripting for Apple devices). Hopefully that means they worked out some of the long-existing bugs and missing features, but I’m not optimistic. Still, could be a useful tool, especially for less tech-literate people.
zzyzxd 2 hours ago [-]
If they are ok with shortcuts being vibecoded, maybe it's time to expose a proper programming language to the end users as well.
All my automation shortcuts can be easily explained in pseudo code under 5 minutes, but it took me ages to put them together because that weird UI/UX forcing me to drag-and-drop squares around to manipulate data structures. Programmers hate it, non-programmers can't understand it, it is not designed for anybody.
jameshart 2 hours ago [-]
It increases the value app developers might get out of offering shortcut actions - similar to how the advent of MCPs seems to have kicked a bunch of SaaS vendors into offering a clean API, the advent of Siri being able to tap into shortcut actions - and script them - might make it feel more worthwhile to app devs to open up deep functions.
seaal 4 hours ago [-]
Just updated to see if I could make a shortcut to toggle `Reduced White Point` accessibility shortcut.
"Try describing something different for the shortcut."
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it still doesn't work.
cgearhart 49 minutes ago [-]
I just tested this myself. I wrote “flip the reduce white point toggle accessibility option in the settings app” and it worked perfectly. Run once to set it and run again to disable it.
iknowstuff 1 hours ago [-]
Lol that sucks. But FYI you can set it to a triple press of the power button.
1 hours ago [-]
doganarif 6 minutes ago [-]
We heard a lot of things, but unfortunately, I'm pretty sure it won't work as expected.
whh 32 minutes ago [-]
I wonder if they got around to the Finder date-sorting bug that's been around for about 10 years.
azinman2 13 minutes ago [-]
What’s the bug
alrtd82 1 hours ago [-]
In English!? Someone please Apple that LLMs can deal with multiple languages at once without the old “go to Settings to configure your language”
Izmaki 1 hours ago [-]
I wonder if the language support is the voice part of the assistant? It took a while (years) for Siri to speak my native language back then.
Danox 1 hours ago [-]
Not with the EU, support isn’t coming the lawyers in the EU won’t get there before the engineers in China.
jaredcwhite 2 hours ago [-]
It's funny, I'm so thankful none of my Apple hardware is new enough to run much of this garbage. I'd switch off as much as I possibly could anyway…
azinman2 12 minutes ago [-]
Why?
baggachipz 4 hours ago [-]
> coming this fall
I believe we also heard that a couple years ago.
MattDamonSpace 4 hours ago [-]
Went out of their way to show actual usage of these features on actual devices in actual people’s hands
losvedir 4 hours ago [-]
Heh, I noticed the same thing, after the DaringFireball callout last year about the normal product demo progression. It looks "real" this time, but the question is how far along we are: will the journalists have a chance to play with it at the event?
You could see jitter in the reflection on the MacBook as the guy typed, so that all looked great.
The responses came in very fast though, so I’m sceptical that the latency is representative (or that they didn’t cherry pick results, but they looked LLM generated). We shall see though.
troupo 58 minutes ago [-]
Even for live shows they'd cherry pick specific scenarios that were known to work, and those would sometimes fail. IN a heavily produced pre-arranged pre-determined marketing video? It was as polished and made as smooth as possible.
data-ottawa 46 minutes ago [-]
I think that’s mostly okay, I just worry about the times. It was like 2-3 seconds to search and pull context then generate the answer.
I’m writing AI apps these days, and even pulling Gemini 3.5 flash on Google Cloud takes longer to get a multi-step response.
Obviously the video is not representative, and there are fast models on fast hardware. But if this takes 2 minutes it’s not very compelling to users.
barumrho 4 hours ago [-]
This looks pretty promising to me. It will likely replace the need to set up OpenClaw for average personal users. The work of getting email, messages, and all the personal data on the phone as context seamlessly is not as straightforward as one might think.
I'm curious how the pricing will work. Would it be free up to some limit and then some subscription pricing? I can't imagine it can be free unlimited usage given the price of serving these models.
pheewma 3 hours ago [-]
Craig mentioned near the end of the keynote that compute intensive things (like image generation) will have rate limits that can be increased bundled with their iCloud + plans. I imagine any request that gets routed to their cloud compute will be subject to limits as well. He positioned it as a value-add to their existing subscription but I suppose that can change.
emodendroket 3 hours ago [-]
I doubt the average personal user knows what OpenClaw even is though Google is also producing competitive stuff.
aurareturn 4 hours ago [-]
This is why OpenAI thinks it needs to build its own physical devices. If Apple is only allowing its own AI to operate at the OS level, then that leaves OpenAI with no choice but to build their own.
Meta also realized this and attempted multiple times to build their own hardware but they've given up each time. They started as early as a partnering with HTC in 2011 to make a Facebook phone.
Quite frankly, I'm kind of excited to see what OpenAI can build. I think an AI-first phone could challenge iOS and Android. It's a new paradigm and if OpenAI gets it right, it'll be very hard for Apple and Google to pivot.
I personally think chat + code is the future of apps. For example, I find myself wanting to do many things inside ChatGPT instead of traditional app because I can tell it to do things that are simply impossible on a static app UI. For example, I have some data I want to send to an app but before I do, I want ChatGPT to clean the data in some way first. And then after the data is uploaded, I want ChatGPT to pull some data off the API and make charts that I want to see.
I imagine a world where very intelligent models run at 10k tokens/s, app building is extremely standardized, and it simply builds any app you want inside the OS. IE, if you want a dashboard of your health data, you ask it to build it almost instantly exactly how you want it. I'm already doing something similar today but it's slow and not easy to do for non-engineers.
layer8 3 hours ago [-]
> If Apple is only allowing its own AI to operate at the OS level
Incidentally, that’s what’s preventing Apple from rolling out their OS-privileged AI in the EU, as the EU mandates equal access for competing AI products. It will be interesting how this plays out.
aurareturn 3 hours ago [-]
I don't personally agree with EU's mandates. I think it's ok if Apple only allows their own models to run on iOS at the OS level.
If OpenAI makes their own AI-phone, do they have to let Anthropic and Deepseek run their models on it too?
merlindru 3 hours ago [-]
> do they have to let Anthropic and Deepseek run their models on it too?
provided it gets big enough, yes. the EU's position roughly is "if this hurts an entire market just to benefit you, and lots of people use / rely on it, then you gotta allow it"
Danox 47 minutes ago [-]
Then the EU’s not gonna get anywhere the US and China will just sail along. The lawyers in the EU are essentially cutting their throats building hardware and operating systems cost real money and time which is one of the reasons Apple is using Google’s model for $1 billion a year. (when Apple finishes their models in house, Google probably will be dropped). Like dropping Broadcom, Intel, or Qualcomm in 2027-28).
It takes real time to drag along five ecosystems. That is the main reason it’s taking Apple longer than they’re so-called competition? Noticed that Google and Microsoft only do bits and pieces. Microsoft has no mobile and Google at its heart is an ad company the processor is six years behind.
aurareturn 3 hours ago [-]
Why can't Anthropic or Deepseek take the big risk to develop their own phone? It doesn't seem right that they can simply use EU laws to hop on the ride for free without taking the same risks.
KawaiiCyborg 2 hours ago [-]
As a consumer it also doesn't seem right that Apple can just use all their private APIs that no other company is allowed to use to tell me what I can and can't use on my phone. If I want Anthropic to have the same level of access that Apple grants itself on _my_ phone, I should be able to do so.
Danox 19 minutes ago [-]
Don’t buy it you have Android which is 3/4 of the world? What’s the problem? You also have Windows which is also 3/4 of the world.
aurareturn 25 minutes ago [-]
If I want Anthropic to have the same level of access that Apple grants itself on _my_ phone, I should be able to do so.
I want to install my personal software on my refrigerator, washing machine, hand shaver, coffee maker. I bought them. They're mine. /s
If people want to buy open hardware, then just buy those. If they don't exist, make them yourself.
merlindru 2 hours ago [-]
the EU feels like this falls under monopolistic practices, which it has deemed illegal. the buck stops with the politicians - there's no reason other than "the EU thinks it's bad for the economy and should thus not be allowed"
Danox 58 minutes ago [-]
OpenAI is not a hardware company or an OS company and they hardly have the money to pay the real cost in the long-term, if Amazon, Meta, Google and the Linux crowd are having trouble, OpenAI is not gonna get the job done.
officeplant 2 hours ago [-]
>Meta also realized this and attempted multiple times to build their own hardware but they've given up each time. They started as early as a partnering with HTC in 2011 to make a Facebook phone.
I was working in cellphone sales at the time and I can tell you no one wanted that phone back then even when Facebook was massive. An easy to hit facebook button was not a value add anyone was begging to exist.
Although with how many phones now have stock forced installs of Meta apps perhaps they won their con in the long game.
Similarly no one really wants a physical AI device, and attempts at such are pure techbro hubris on the companies part.
yakshaving_jgt 10 minutes ago [-]
I think I want a physical AI device.
I want an AI assistant that I can use truly hands free. I keep my phone in my jacket when I'm riding my motorcycle. I want to be able to start, stop, adjust, and check details in route guidance. I want to be able to ask what the weather is like ahead on my route. I want to be able to ask it to start looking for a sensible place for me to stop for fuel and/or food without making me do a big detour.
Actually I would also quite like better driving directions, since I can't look at the directions on a screen.
aurareturn 1 hours ago [-]
Similarly no one really wants a physical AI device, and attempts at such are pure techbro hubris on the companies part.
No one serious has made one.
visarga 3 hours ago [-]
Before they add AI they better fix the frigging search function in settings, it is horrible, you need to know their exact words, and Apple has a funny naming sense. Hierarchies nested so deep you never find anything. I come to use Claude or ChatGPT to tell me the right incantations to find a setting.
nafizh 4 hours ago [-]
They should have changed the name as per branding. I hear Siri, I subconsciously associate it with really bad software.
avazhi 19 minutes ago [-]
I hear Apple and I associate with it with laughable AI integration, an unserious UI, and buggy software.
Apple’s entire software stack has a branding problem.
aucisson_masque 41 minutes ago [-]
Week if its like the current apple intelligence feature,I don't care if we don't get in the eu.
yalogin 4 hours ago [-]
The chatbots(ChatGPT, Claude et al) showed Apple exactly what can be done, the user base is already well primed. So this is a product definition done for them to execute. If done well they will be able to provide a much stronger integration into the day to day use cases than the chatbots, and can siphon off user time from them. This time around the end to end is easier with Apple Intelligence and more importantly llms doing the work Apple is floundering at. So I am hopeful, but I still see the os/app level integration as not enough in terms of functionality to make it a hit. The primary use case for llms is still conversations and search. Apple should be focusing on that aspect primarily and also add the os/app level integration as a bonus - as something only they can do. If they just do the latter, it will not be as much of a success. Let’s see how they execute.
EDIT: To provide meaningful chat functionality they have to either eat up the cost or charge a subscription for it. This will be first time they charge for Siri - a product that doesn’t garner any positive reviews. This gets even more interesting to watch
emodendroket 3 hours ago [-]
> This will be first time they charge for Siri - a product that doesn’t garner any positive reviews.
It seems like revisionist history to say that; lots of people were sold on iPhones years ago because of Siri. They have one of the few business cases for voice assistants, which are notoriously difficult to actually monetize, that actually makes any sense, since "selling iPhones" is meaningful and "selling a subscription" would be nice on top of that.
manmal 4 hours ago [-]
If they are using some mid model and are stingy with web search, I won’t use it more than a couple times.
minimaxir 4 hours ago [-]
I wonder how much of Siri AI is Apple-developed and how much of it is Google-developed as a result of Gemini. The a) search demos and b) image generation demos seem unlikely to have been done by Apple alone, the demos being closer to Google Search and Nano Banana respectively.
thewebguyd 4 hours ago [-]
It looks almost entirely like gemini. The images they showed are obviously nano banana, and the text responses are almost obviously Gemini (I say as a somewhat frequent Gemini user).
I'm sure they customized some of it, but this looks basically like Gemini integrated with iCloud instead of Google Workspace.
devindotcom 4 hours ago [-]
I'm curious what the obvious tells were for you. I never use any of these tools so I do wonder what sets them apart for those in frequent contact.
thewebguyd 4 hours ago [-]
The images were the biggest tell, generating using a reference photo of a person, at least Gemini and ChatGPT have two distinct styles. ChatGPT is a little less uncanny valley than Gemini which tries to be too realistic looking, in a bad way because it tries to preserve the original person in the photo, but still can't seem to help altering facial features.
The text responses had Gemini's verbosity. Asking ChatGPT to show me iconic dishes from both Brazil and Morocco (Apple's example), is much cleaner, less verbose. Quick list of dishes and links to the recipe. Gemini just spews a wall of text and bullet points and goes on and on with fluff. Tons of "What this dish is" "Why it works" Same with its frequent use of tables, which I see less of with ChatGPT.
Each Siri demo they did in the keynote had that hallmark verbosity I typically get with Gemini without prompting it to not do that.
om42 2 hours ago [-]
Yeah I noticed the same things! I've been using Gemini on my Pixel a lot like this and this feels like Siri skin for Gemini
madeofpalk 3 hours ago [-]
Is Siri any more or less than “just” an agentic harness such as OpenClaw? How much of what that harness does is up to the LLM or the harness itself?
In my mind the Gemini LLM defines the bounds of capability and capacity, but any actual functionality or usefulness (or lack of) comes from Apple’s Siri harness.
losvedir 4 hours ago [-]
I was wondering the same. I have to imagine it's mostly Gemini, unless Apple has a big, secret, SotA foundation model no one has heard of? But if it is Gemini, how does that work with their Private Cloud thing? Are they able to load the Gemini weights into it?
4 hours ago [-]
WarmWash 4 hours ago [-]
IIRC Apple cut a deal to have their own version of Gemini that is hosted just for them.
testfrequency 4 hours ago [-]
There was not a single thing they launched that I have not seen Gemini already showcase capability or existing feature wise
Danox 12 minutes ago [-]
The only thing you saw was phoning home, that’s what’s gonna be interesting when Apple releases their version. Is it phoning home 100% of the time or can you turn off the Internet and have it perform in the same way, there will be plenty of YouTubers that will give it the test a test I might add that they haven’t done up until this point for anything that Google has put out?
bilsbie 4 hours ago [-]
The killer app would be a locally run Siri that learns about you and your preferences.
2 hours ago [-]
tzm 1 hours ago [-]
If that Siri orb fails to respond after this release, I'm done with Apple.
rumblefrog 2 hours ago [-]
The automatically update of my compromised passwords on websites is very impressive, and I wonder how it's achieved.
loloquwowndueo 3 hours ago [-]
The only thing I want to know about this new Siri is how to turn it entirely off.
fckgw 50 minutes ago [-]
You could just not use it.
loloquwowndueo 45 minutes ago [-]
Oh I’m definitely not going to use it. But apple tends to try to put these things in your face and get you to use them (seen all those purple buttons in Pages lately?). A global “just don’t show me or try to get me to use this crap at all” switch would be very welcome. Bonus if it also frees up however many GB of space this garbage will take whether I use it or not.
Danox 16 minutes ago [-]
You don’t know what’s in your face until you use Copilot.
koalalorenzo 2 hours ago [-]
I agree, I am kinda disappointed by how much AI there is in this update, I was hoping for something different and exciting.
matthewfcarlson 2 hours ago [-]
I think it's important to note what they didn't talk about. They briefly scrolled a long list of performance improvements and mentioned a few. Personally, I am very hopeful that the fact that they only talked about these high level AI features means the other engineers got to spend time focusing on performance and quality.
loloquwowndueo 15 minutes ago [-]
Fixing the shit show that iOS 26 is and making it so my shiny new iPhone 17 doesn’t visibly struggle rendering simple ui elements should be considered table stakes for iOS 27, I wouldn’t expect them to mention that too much as it’s like the bare minimum we expect for the update.
gilbetron 4 hours ago [-]
I don't care much about Siri, and not a lot about Apple (other than as an investment), but Apple is generally really good about putting out polished tech, and so I'm curious if Siri AI will be up to their usual standards, because if so, it represents a significant usage of AI that has solved hallucination issues.
But that's a big If!
Danox 7 minutes ago [-]
The big if is does it work on device without phoning home? For example, Google or Meta as a Ad/data collection company wants to phone home for everything because they want to collect data on you, what will this Apple solution do?
usrnm 1 hours ago [-]
> I'm curious if Siri AI will be up to their usual standards
You clearly never used Siri before
reconnecting 4 hours ago [-]
Amazing how this time Apple found the `sweet spot` to release Siri AI when the letter combination A and I has fed up literally everyone.
graypegg 4 hours ago [-]
Watching the keynote at our office on a big screen and everyone collectively sighing when they announced the name felt indicative haha.
I think it just feels uncreative? Siri as a brand has some value, but if you want it to feel like a watershed moment where old Siri is "behind us" finally, just give it a new name.
reconnecting 4 hours ago [-]
I don't think Apple has the option to rebrand Siri at this stage, assuming people actually call Siri by name. However, turning AI into 'Apple Intelligence' doesn't feel creative either.
xp84 3 hours ago [-]
> assuming people actually call Siri by name
This doesn't follow for me. They can trivially allow it to still respond to the old wakeword. They should absolutely change the name in the event they can finally make it useful, because "Siri" is (in my mind and many others') a synonym for "hapless idiot." "Thanks, Siri" has been uttered hundreds of time in my house and my car, and 100% of the time it's sarcastic.
graypegg 3 hours ago [-]
Same thing in my head. I only see this going one way, which is tons of people hear that Siri “got better” after this update.
Many of those people will speak a language that’s not English, or live in the EU or China where it’ll still be “Siri”, not “Siri AI”.
“Do you have the new Siri?”
“Yeah I updated… but she still seems so dumb”
“Oh yeah… well that’s Siri for you I guess”
Horrifying for marketing folk, I would presume. You’re just setting people up to confirm that Siri is always useless and improvements are invisible.
spike021 4 hours ago [-]
we were doing the same thing and giggling a bit that it's basically "AI AI" now. realistically a lot of people thought of Siri as AI already.
ryukoposting 4 hours ago [-]
Or just keep calling it Siri, and announce "hey look, Siri does some cool new things."
AI is a technology, not a product. Consumers don't care about technologies, they care about what the product does versus what they currently have.
I think Jobs was an asshole, but one good thing I can say about him is that he understood the difference between technology and products. Imagine if they had called it the "iPod HDD."
graypegg 3 hours ago [-]
The ergonomics of “the new X” sort of fall apart when you’re releasing it in stages. (Not in EU/only in English) It spawns a lot of conversations like “do you have the new Siri? Uh… I think so? It’s still crap though.” You cart around this bad brand image because you pitch this big watershed moment and 2/3rds of people are still using the “wrong” Siri.
Siri and Voice Control were both usable during the same time and it feels like it could work here too.
Totally agree that AI is just an implementation detail though. IMO that new product name should NOT have “AI” in it at all.
3 hours ago [-]
threetonesun 3 hours ago [-]
It's going to be weird though when my phone has Siri AI and my Homepod has Siri... "please ask on your iPhone" edition. I also don't quite get the distinction of Siri as an app versus the Siri I yell at to make my TV do something.
amelius 4 hours ago [-]
Amazing how someone again finds a meaningless thing Apple does better than the rest then blows it out of proportions. Makes you wonder if they are on Apple's PR team.
Danox 4 minutes ago [-]
So you noticed the five ecosystems being shown working together, not perfectly but better than everyone else.
reconnecting 4 hours ago [-]
It looks bad from every perspective. I've never seen two apple's in one URL for product category before. apple.com/apple-intelligence
To prove my point, I opened a random date on the Apple website matching today's date to compare. 16 years ago, June 8 (1) Apple released the iPhone 4. There's still no room for jokes about that release, and from this perspective, calling their AI 'Apple Intelligence' feels weak compared to what they used to deliver.
I agree that some years ago Apple was the strongest in marketing, their brand team had been setting the bar for tech, but I simply can't say that anymore.
Apple notably threw shade at the existing AI implementations, with an emphasis on making Siri AI more human-focused.
The stock price definitely didn't like it though.
greedo 4 hours ago [-]
The stock market is notorious for dropping on almost any Apple conference or announcement.
reconnecting 4 hours ago [-]
I mean, seriously, AI = Apple Intelligence?
It's not even funny, it's not smart. It's like if they released MS Siri and said it's Mac System Siri.
nozzlegear 4 hours ago [-]
> I mean, seriously, AI = Apple Intelligence?
For pedantry's sake, they were saying "AI = Apple Intelligence" last year as well, so it's not like they just pulled it out of their butts now that popular opinion has turned against AI.
reconnecting 4 hours ago [-]
Exactly, I thought one year was enough to prove that everyone reads those letters differently nowadays.
4 hours ago [-]
hmokiguess 4 hours ago [-]
I feel like the hate came more from the "Available today for Developers and later in Beta" than anything
AuthAuth 1 hours ago [-]
Its wild to me that people use those apple emoji people. It looks so bad.
Danox 6 minutes ago [-]
That’s your clue that it’s AI, or do you want it so realistic that you don’t know the difference?
10 minutes ago [-]
OberstKrueger 4 hours ago [-]
> Available on iPhone 17 Pro, iPhone 17 Pro Max, iPhone Air, iPad models with M4 and later and at least 12GB of unified memory, and Mac models with M3 and later and at least 12GB of unified memory.
It’s really disappointing to see the on-device models being limited to so few devices. And this was after the iPhone 16 and 16 Pro were marketed so heavily with supporting their now failed effort at AI.
e28eta 39 minutes ago [-]
I’ve got a 2023 Mac Studio M2, and was dismayed by the M3 & later. So I’ve been trying to track down more details. That specific device list is only for:
> Apple’s most powerful on-device model and the features it enables, like expressive voices and more advanced dictation, […]
On other devices, I think there’s still on device support (just not with the “most powerful model”), for these devices:
> Apple Intelligence and Siri AI in iOS 27, iPadOS 27, macOS 27, watchOS 27, and visionOS 27 are available on iPhone 16 models or later, iPhone 15 Pro, iPhone 15 Pro Max, iPad mini (A17 Pro), MacBook Neo (A18 Pro), iPad models with M1 or later, Mac with M1 or later, Apple Vision Pro, Apple Watch Series 9 or later, Apple Watch Ultra 2 or later, and Apple Watch SE 3 when paired with an Apple Intelligence-enabled iPhone nearby.
I do wish they’d been more clear about what the “advanced features” are :(
onesociety2022 4 hours ago [-]
Apple has pulled a Tesla here. FSD on HW3 cars is stuck on old software with no upgrade path as of now. Tesla is potentially justifying it by calling it "FSD (Supervised)" so they don't have to do an expensive retrofit to them even though they sold these cars originally with the promise of fully autonomous driving.
All the iPhone 16/Pro owners have been waiting for Apple Intelligence features announced from that WWDC 2 years ago. They didn't get delivered and now won't ever be delivered with on-device intelligence due to the 8GB RAM limitation.
1 hours ago [-]
browningstreet 50 minutes ago [-]
I'm glad I've been sitting on my iPhone 15 Pro Max... I'll upgrade someday, if/when I need to and the software updates are compelling, but I'll see how things run on my M5 Macbook. But the 15 Pro Max isn't subpar in any other way.
Amorymeltzer 4 hours ago [-]
That's specifically the secondary, more-powerful model. It was only mentioned in passing in the keynote, but on this page anyway, it seems to be just the improved dictation in Siri and ability to customize pacing, etc.
havaloc 4 hours ago [-]
The 12gb number is weird, but also telling.
iPhones have 12gb, current Neo has 8gb, the next gen Neo is speculated to have 12gb (as it'll be based on a later iPhone chip).
josho 3 hours ago [-]
> It’s really disappointing to see the on-device models being limited to so few devices.
At first I thought it was the usual planned obsolescence. Then I realized it may be a true technical limitation. I suspect an embedding model is required to run on device in order to make several of the features work. Embedding models are small compared to LLMs, but, depending on their capabilities, could be the memory driver.
xlii 48 minutes ago [-]
> We’re deeply disappointed that our EU users won’t have Siri AI on iPhone or iPad when we share our new software releases later this year
I really enjoy this lag. Apple with the whole DMA made iPhone completely dull to my eyes. Previously? Updated yearly. Now? 3+ years without replacement and probably will stick to it for next 2-3 years.
Sure maybe in US Apple is fun. But in EU it's.. boring (and not like a Golang boring, just boring)
bilsbie 4 hours ago [-]
It’s weird it says I can ask Siri about a document in front of me but can I ask it about a webpage I’m currently reading?
(It’s been driving me crazy there’s no “AI this” button to discuss whatever is on my screen.)
meatmanek 44 minutes ago [-]
I'm guessing they'll integrate with the double-tap-the-bottom-of-the-screen feature that pulls up siri in front of a screenshot. Currently it doesn't seem to hook into "visual intelligence", and needs to call out to ChatGPT to do anything with the screen contents.
browningstreet 48 minutes ago [-]
Today's presentation was about the things you can do in the next release. And the asnwer to your question is "yes", in Golden Gate.
xp84 3 hours ago [-]
Edge has had this for a long time. I can highlight a string and right-click, 'Send to Copilot' and click "explain" and it'll prompt it to 'explain this passage, particularly in the context of the current page.'
Note: I have MS 365 personal or whatever it's called this week so I'm not sure how Copilot acts for a completely free user.
jameshart 2 hours ago [-]
That would be a finder feature vs a safari feature? They talked about safari’s capabilities in a separate segment.
2001zhaozhao 4 hours ago [-]
> Private Cloud Compute
> Your data is never stored
> Used only for your requests
> Verifiable privacy promise
Apple is cooking. Although at that point might as well bring the cloud features to more devices. Yeah it costs more but also locks users in harder.
max8539 3 hours ago [-]
Hm, second try? And Siri AI again without dates. First time it was also “later” but was postponed for how many years?
lolive 4 hours ago [-]
Will I be convinced to change my iphone 6s? #suspense
h14h 4 hours ago [-]
Apple Shortcuts have felt like a blatantly obvious AI play to me for a while now.
The interface for creating them manually has been so bad for so long, it feels clear to me that LLM-driven shortcut orchestration was always the endgame. Apple built up their ecosystem of composable "tools", and then trained an LLM on how to call them.
The result, IMO, is the first OpenClaw/Hermes competitor that's feasible for use by the general public.
Everyone with a paid Claude or ChatGPT that they're struggling to use to the fullest is going to have very little reason not to swap over to an upgraded iCloud+ plan (if they don't already have one). I suspect we're going to see mass cancellation of $20/mo plans very soon.
OpenAI's timing for removing their temporary increased usage limits is looking pretty unfortunate...
manmal 4 hours ago [-]
Why do I need shortcuts though, I want that to be transparent.
h14h 3 hours ago [-]
Good point, that's probably gonna be the hardest sell.
I have shortcuts set up to count the hours I log in my work Google calendar and copy them to my clipboard to help me prepare invoices.
So while I've already been sold on what Shortcuts can do, getting the general public to see the possibilities is probably gonna be a challenge.
xp84 3 hours ago [-]
I think Shortcuts has a few massive flaws that would give me pause enshrining it as middleware for an important thing like a "mainstream OpenClaw".
1 is performance. It's slow. You can run one within the app and literally watch execution flow from one block to the next. Absurd, for the CPU power at hand.
2 is reliance on developers to deliberately implement hooks and "intents" when the developers of at least half of apps including most "big company" apps do not care to bother, often because 95% of their app's surface is actually cross-platform stuff.
Example: There are no shortcut actions for Google Calendar, and Gmail only has one real one which is a generic send email. No "search email" etc.
I'd rather see Apple lean into "computer use" to allow it to use any app that displays things on the screen, but IDK how you make that safe.
ftth_finland 4 hours ago [-]
Please don’t suck.
drummojg 3 hours ago [-]
Right? I've been waiting a lot of years for an upgrade to my voice-activated timer setter/music player launcher.
xp84 3 hours ago [-]
Can't even get that right sometimes. A few weeks ago I somehow accidentally activated Siri and it decided that what I wanted was for it to play some kind of terrifying industrial electronic noise music that scared my kid.
The screenshot about pho is funny to me. Bean sprouts are not a good source of fiber. Noodles are not especially healthy. The broth base is not fish sauce, nor is fish sauce where broth gets most of its sodium. Slop city!
hombre_fatal 4 hours ago [-]
Yeah, "Fiber: good source" when 100g of raw bean sprouts gives you 1.8g fiber (less than a 2" kiwi), and pho comes with much less than 100g of sprouts.
Pho is a pretty bad source of fiber.
It sucks that we're skipping over such good tools like cronometer.com to figure out what we're actually eating and going straight to hallucination, adding more confusion to nutrition.
Melatonic 2 hours ago [-]
Seriously - that was bizarre. Why would they not choose a healthier meal or something more unknown?
atulvi 4 hours ago [-]
How is this different from the chatgpt apple intelligence thing from last year?
xp84 3 hours ago [-]
This time they really promise it'll ship
But fundamentally, the real difference is they have now bought and white-labeled Gemini to replace all the stuff they failed to make 2 years ago.
insane_dreamer 1 hours ago [-]
So Siri is basically now a Gemini agent?
Our family uses Siri with a HomePod a lot, and it's already much better than it was a couple of years ago where it could basically set timers, tell you the weather. Now it answers questions ("when did the Knicks last win an NBA championship") with decent answers, instead of "I'll send the web results to your phone". But it's still far behind voice-chatting with Claude in the Claude app, so very much looking forward to this upgrade.
I will say though that proper voice transcription in Claude -- or any of these agents -- sucks. If it can't understand the question properly, then it can't provide the right answer. It works okay for me, but not for my kids, not when speaking quickly or in incomplete sentences (as people tend to do), etc.
simianwords 2 hours ago [-]
Here's what I want: natural language interaction to achieve complex workflows in iPhone. Example: find the cheapest way to go from A to B and book it using the Deutsche Bahn Train app.
I still don't think Siri can do that ::angry::
CrzyLngPwd 4 hours ago [-]
Great, as long as I can switch it off and use my phone as I always have, I'm happy for them.
I can't wait to take a photo of a cricket ball and ask it what it is, ffs.
These people need to get out, touch grass, watch trees swaying in the breeze, and put their phones down before they lose toonmany neurons.
cindyllm 4 hours ago [-]
[dead]
AndrewKemendo 1 hours ago [-]
How many companies did they just Sherlock?
bilsbie 4 hours ago [-]
Honestly I don’t have much faith in Apple intelligence when it can’t even search my settings.
BonoboIO 2 hours ago [-]
A multi trillion dollar company not able to create open apis for competition … definitely the EUs fault
0gs 4 hours ago [-]
all the limitations of on-device with none of the benefits, it seems? they gotta get SOMETHING out there and soon but idk, i would probably feel safer running a chinese model through a 3P iOS app shell vs. trusting Geminiri to not snitch if i cared about the sanctity of my personal information.
nozzlegear 4 hours ago [-]
> all the limitations of on-device with none of the benefits, it seems?
What do you mean?
0gs 2 hours ago [-]
i think i just mean if they are using google models, then i believe every query is going to google no matter what apple claims about "keeping it local." whether google does anything with it, separate question i guess, but i imagine it will ALSO be slow to simulate the protection apple is selling. and sure, it's a catty comment, i'll own that. but that is my read on the announcements and demonstrations.
micromacrofoot 4 hours ago [-]
The most notable thing here is that they finally have the primitives to make Siri actually useful across apps. I can't even use Siri to close Google Maps in my car right now.
nobody_r_knows 4 hours ago [-]
This whole "coming this fall", "later this year", it's annoying. I miss the days when Steve Jobs used to say "and it's available right now, you can demo it in the hall outside, we're going ot make a billion dollars by tonight."
Melatonic 2 hours ago [-]
To be fair this is the conference for developers - not the general public
wilg 4 hours ago [-]
More or less stuck AI in all the obvious spots, which will probably be fine I guess. Not super exciting!
jmuguy 4 hours ago [-]
This is disappointing. I had hoped when Apple revisited AI that they would lean into agents more and give us some sort of agent interface between the phone and a model running locally on your Mac at home. More niche for sure, but much more powerful. Instead we're getting more generic AI tie-ins to apps and "suggestions".
Melatonic 2 hours ago [-]
Seriously - this would be a major cool thing to actually use AI for. Run some local AI basic stuff on phone and have it securely connect to your own home device for more advanced tasks or control your home agents. Could even reduce their own need to host cloud AI compute
timwis 4 hours ago [-]
For real this time...
hmokiguess 4 hours ago [-]
missed opportunity to call it "VibeSiri"
gregorygoc 1 hours ago [-]
Can Apple now focus on rolling back Liquid Glass “upgrade”?
data-ottawa 51 minutes ago [-]
If you watched the keynote they added transparency controls, adjusted the refraction, removed the different window corner radii into one, and cleaned up sidebars and toolbars. They also updated icons to have more depth to them so you get a harder border on key elements.
I still look at older MacOS screenshots and think a lot of it looks better, but directionally they are improving Liquid Glass.
idontwantthis 3 hours ago [-]
If this is good, I might finally ditch my 12 mini.
sleepybrett 4 hours ago [-]
The one thing I've been trying to figure out / hoping will get a fix is that in the apple intelligence settings panel there is an 'extension' that allows it to use chatgpt. I would like to be able to have an extension for local models and/or custom apis.
k2xl 4 hours ago [-]
I’m honestly surprised Apple didn’t retire the Siri brand.
At this point, “Siri” has a pretty strong cultural association with being underwhelming or unhelpful. Even if the new version is dramatically better, convincing people to give Siri another shot may be harder than launching the same technology under a new name.
Feels like a missed opportunity to reset expectations.
thewebguyd 3 hours ago [-]
Yeah missed opportunity. They could have even had a fake funeral for Siri like Jobs did for OS 9, or a "retirement party" or something. Leave the Siri brand behind and launch this as something brand new.
The demo video there is so underwhelming. They show very basic stuff, which I assumed Siri was already capable of doing... not sure what the big improvement is
lotsofpulp 4 hours ago [-]
Based on my experience, I assume Siri is not capable of anything more than setting timers or referring me to my phone to see the search results.
nico 4 hours ago [-]
And that’s pretty much what they show in the demo, plus asking it for directions on Apple Maps (which it can also do already), and searching for pictures on the Photos app (which I just tried and it can’t do - so it looks like that’s the main feature)
microtonal 4 hours ago [-]
If it's going to be anything like Gemini on Google Pixel, it'll be great at everything except for trivial tasks like setting timers :).
ForOldHack 2 hours ago [-]
I was at Best Buy in the Apple section, and I asked its AI "What is the best value in four year old MacBook pros." It pointed me directly at an over-under washer dryer for $3400. Quite obviously, it was trained, like a drooling puppy by Madison Ave.
Wait... don't tell me... there is an App for that.
andrewstuart 4 hours ago [-]
I go on long walks and talk to ChatGPT in depth in its conversation mode about programming and computing in depth.
That’s what I expected from Siri but you can get in from ChatGPT .
curvaturearth 3 hours ago [-]
Hey look! Here's something new that we could already do but now it costs more and takes more engineering and.. AI
This feels like it could be solved with a list of permissions that the user has to turn on when using 3rd party AI.
Apple already:
I feel like this is nothing more than Apple being angry that they have to allow people to actually choose what AI they want on their phone. This is particulary interesting if anthropic and openai decided they want to add siri ai override to their apps allowing them to take advantage of the apple ecosystem without signing some kind of deal like they had to with Google. I assume behind closed doors Google had to make some sacrifices for them to be the model powering siri.It's really just Apple being angry about the EU's DMA endangering their golden goose (App Store revenue) and using any meaningful new functionality as a bargaining chip.
They've done staggered geo launches for other features in the past many times, both before and after the DMA was passed, and in this case there's even another great reason to not want to globally launch all at once (AI inference server capacity). If they can at the same time market it as part of their ridiculous turf war against the European Commission, I guess they just have to take the opportunity.
It just reads like arrogant foreigners throwing a tantrum over our laws.
I'm extrapolating (there is less detail in that press release than I expected from your comment), but this sounds to be like it would be the thing that enables such a "list of permissions". I would be curious to know exactly what this agent entailed and why the EU did not approve it.
Nah, that just shifts the goal posts. If they did that, developers would be whining about "scare screens", as we have already seen when Apple put app installs behind a permission prompt.
They're already up in arms about the requirement from Apple (and Google) to know who is behind the apps that slurp up all your data.
The DMA maximalists won't be happy until Apple releases an anonymous service to automate setting up a Kafka topic to send each iOS user's PII to whoever wants to receive it.
What is the purpose of that?
ref: https://www.evehome.com/en/eve-blinds-collection
What do you mean exactly? Audio conversation only? If so I don't see it very practical for most of the things
Siri seems to rarely get better and sometimes actually get worse.
Apple cares greatly about their brand yet this has hurt their brand like nothing else in the past decade
but Apple isn't known to make grand promises and then not keep them, is it..? usually they just deliver what they say they will
yet i've been reading about "well they promised AI Siri two years ago and Siri still can't set an alarm right" in every thread even remotely related to the topic
i don't remember reading this much about anything else. it seems to have soured people quite a bit, at least in my internet bubble
And the Mac Neo is a best seller. Yep they really hurt themselves?
The only thing hurting Apple right now is memory like everyone else out there all because of the AI data center fiasco.
I don't see strong evidence the average consumer is demanding 'AI features' in everything. I mean even amongst the technically inclined this is often bemoaned, anecdotally.
why don't they just wait and not ship any AI junk at all? instead of promising a Siri AI rework, which then doesn't deliver? or Image Generation stuff that feels wildly put of character and generates tasteless and often downright creepy images?
not to mention that all of the new AI stuff they announced won't go live in China and the EU for a while.
why not do exactly what you proposed and wait it out? instead they seem to be trying to deliver AI stuff and just unable to.
there's also reports that apple execs held a secret emergency "oh shit what do we do about AI" type meeting.
they very much didn't intend to be this behind
Why? What strengths and structural advantages do you think thy have?
What black swan situation could arise that Apple cannot counter?
If there’s truly an existential threat to its device business, Copy Well
So while they could win, it’s pretty hard to get hyped about it before we see real-world tests.
Is it available in China at least or is this another “50% of the userbase gets nothing new in the OS update” year?
Edit: https://x.com/wongmjane/status/2064052590992916840?s=46
Lol
What's really happening is Apple unilaterally withholding features while making vague noises about regulation as bargaining chips in talks with EU regulators where Apple is trying to weasel out of punishment for breaking anti-monopoly laws.
It's legit to be skeptical on the privacy front, but giving deepseek access to my entire phone. Or the TrumpAI at some point in a dystopian future seems... not great.
Opening up an API does not mean that everything on the phone is accessible to anybody.
So, where developers comply, all of that content is now accessible to those alternative implementations.
It’s not full read/write of the phone, and it’d exclude obvious secrets like passwords, but it is quite far reaching access.
I don’t know what sort of restrictions they can put on the alternative implementations. Can I vibe code one and have it live in a week? or is there a minimum bar?
The way I see it: If a user willingly (1) installs another AI app like deepseek and (2) willingly gives it access to 'full phone and app data' with a warning screen or setting of whatever that seems... like a good thing?
I may not agree with those users that it's worthwhile providing their full private data to [some AI startup X] or [Some Chinese or US AI company that will hover up as much for their own use] but if the EU forces Apple to provide this as an option, that sounds good to me.
The whole point of the regulation is that the data on the device is _the user's_ data and if Apple can have its AI services work with the user's data, competitors should be able to do the same.
From my (admittedly European) perspective it looks like Apple is just throwing a tantrum here.
Which is fucking stupid, and Apple will never, ever throw open the gates to something so dangerously braindead. Their entire reputation depends on it.
And China is kinda self-explanatory.
>EU users will be able to access Siri AI on macOS 27, visionOS 27, and watchOS 27.
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/due-to-dma-siri-ai-de...
Apple’s performative DMA outrage is getting more pathetic by the iOS version.
I think a lot of it is the old "perfect is the enemy of good" with Apple trying multiple times now to announce this big basket of all these AI features supposedly coming all at once instead of just regularly shipping new useful AI integrations every month. There was so much easy useful shit that was immediately apparent as soon at OpenAI dropped that first big voice mode years ago coupled with basic app integrations. Particularly in the context of the AI labs that are operating in that lane almost too much where it seems a new model or mode comes out every two weeks.
Finally, I hope this works well. Personally one of the worst things to deal with.
Unfortunately not for other fields like email, notes etc…
IMHO the perfect password app could just keep all previous versions of any field until the user deletes the history.
git + somesite.com.gpg
https://github.com/FiloSottile/passage (or: forked using AGE instead of GPG)
There's a 0% chance it will work. Most websites I've seen have one or all of:
* Force you to use email or SMS as a "second factor" to unlock changing password even if you know the old password
* A stupid idea of password complexity usually requiring one of a finite set of 5-8 "special characters" which is often only revealed after you've chosen a password that doesn't have them. Or in some cases even banning characters other than the ones they check for. There's a standard for this where you put a regex on the password field, which a good password manager will always use, but the kind of idiots who think limiting the entropy of passwords to increase security is the correct way to do things almost NEVER implement this.
* A maximum password length, even as short as 16 characters in many cases
* CAPTCHA etc.
Any effort spent on this would be better spent elsewhere, including even educating other companies on how passkeys should be used.
I don't really believe in Apple being that quality team.
Why?
They have no expertise in this area and their software quality as never been worse.
AI could potentially help solve those unpopular site/app/whatever edgecase.
All my automation shortcuts can be easily explained in pseudo code under 5 minutes, but it took me ages to put them together because that weird UI/UX forcing me to drag-and-drop squares around to manipulate data structures. Programmers hate it, non-programmers can't understand it, it is not designed for anybody.
"Try describing something different for the shortcut."
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it still doesn't work.
I believe we also heard that a couple years ago.
15 years ago they had the balls to run Siri live on stage: https://youtu.be/6rL9EL2LlrA?is=5yMQxs0C2VAC5Lwz
The responses came in very fast though, so I’m sceptical that the latency is representative (or that they didn’t cherry pick results, but they looked LLM generated). We shall see though.
I’m writing AI apps these days, and even pulling Gemini 3.5 flash on Google Cloud takes longer to get a multi-step response.
Obviously the video is not representative, and there are fast models on fast hardware. But if this takes 2 minutes it’s not very compelling to users.
I'm curious how the pricing will work. Would it be free up to some limit and then some subscription pricing? I can't imagine it can be free unlimited usage given the price of serving these models.
Meta also realized this and attempted multiple times to build their own hardware but they've given up each time. They started as early as a partnering with HTC in 2011 to make a Facebook phone.
Quite frankly, I'm kind of excited to see what OpenAI can build. I think an AI-first phone could challenge iOS and Android. It's a new paradigm and if OpenAI gets it right, it'll be very hard for Apple and Google to pivot.
I personally think chat + code is the future of apps. For example, I find myself wanting to do many things inside ChatGPT instead of traditional app because I can tell it to do things that are simply impossible on a static app UI. For example, I have some data I want to send to an app but before I do, I want ChatGPT to clean the data in some way first. And then after the data is uploaded, I want ChatGPT to pull some data off the API and make charts that I want to see.
I imagine a world where very intelligent models run at 10k tokens/s, app building is extremely standardized, and it simply builds any app you want inside the OS. IE, if you want a dashboard of your health data, you ask it to build it almost instantly exactly how you want it. I'm already doing something similar today but it's slow and not easy to do for non-engineers.
Incidentally, that’s what’s preventing Apple from rolling out their OS-privileged AI in the EU, as the EU mandates equal access for competing AI products. It will be interesting how this plays out.
If OpenAI makes their own AI-phone, do they have to let Anthropic and Deepseek run their models on it too?
provided it gets big enough, yes. the EU's position roughly is "if this hurts an entire market just to benefit you, and lots of people use / rely on it, then you gotta allow it"
It takes real time to drag along five ecosystems. That is the main reason it’s taking Apple longer than they’re so-called competition? Noticed that Google and Microsoft only do bits and pieces. Microsoft has no mobile and Google at its heart is an ad company the processor is six years behind.
If people want to buy open hardware, then just buy those. If they don't exist, make them yourself.
I was working in cellphone sales at the time and I can tell you no one wanted that phone back then even when Facebook was massive. An easy to hit facebook button was not a value add anyone was begging to exist.
Although with how many phones now have stock forced installs of Meta apps perhaps they won their con in the long game.
Similarly no one really wants a physical AI device, and attempts at such are pure techbro hubris on the companies part.
I want an AI assistant that I can use truly hands free. I keep my phone in my jacket when I'm riding my motorcycle. I want to be able to start, stop, adjust, and check details in route guidance. I want to be able to ask what the weather is like ahead on my route. I want to be able to ask it to start looking for a sensible place for me to stop for fuel and/or food without making me do a big detour.
Actually I would also quite like better driving directions, since I can't look at the directions on a screen.
Apple’s entire software stack has a branding problem.
EDIT: To provide meaningful chat functionality they have to either eat up the cost or charge a subscription for it. This will be first time they charge for Siri - a product that doesn’t garner any positive reviews. This gets even more interesting to watch
It seems like revisionist history to say that; lots of people were sold on iPhones years ago because of Siri. They have one of the few business cases for voice assistants, which are notoriously difficult to actually monetize, that actually makes any sense, since "selling iPhones" is meaningful and "selling a subscription" would be nice on top of that.
I'm sure they customized some of it, but this looks basically like Gemini integrated with iCloud instead of Google Workspace.
The text responses had Gemini's verbosity. Asking ChatGPT to show me iconic dishes from both Brazil and Morocco (Apple's example), is much cleaner, less verbose. Quick list of dishes and links to the recipe. Gemini just spews a wall of text and bullet points and goes on and on with fluff. Tons of "What this dish is" "Why it works" Same with its frequent use of tables, which I see less of with ChatGPT.
Each Siri demo they did in the keynote had that hallmark verbosity I typically get with Gemini without prompting it to not do that.
In my mind the Gemini LLM defines the bounds of capability and capacity, but any actual functionality or usefulness (or lack of) comes from Apple’s Siri harness.
But that's a big If!
You clearly never used Siri before
I think it just feels uncreative? Siri as a brand has some value, but if you want it to feel like a watershed moment where old Siri is "behind us" finally, just give it a new name.
This doesn't follow for me. They can trivially allow it to still respond to the old wakeword. They should absolutely change the name in the event they can finally make it useful, because "Siri" is (in my mind and many others') a synonym for "hapless idiot." "Thanks, Siri" has been uttered hundreds of time in my house and my car, and 100% of the time it's sarcastic.
Many of those people will speak a language that’s not English, or live in the EU or China where it’ll still be “Siri”, not “Siri AI”.
“Do you have the new Siri?”
“Yeah I updated… but she still seems so dumb”
“Oh yeah… well that’s Siri for you I guess”
Horrifying for marketing folk, I would presume. You’re just setting people up to confirm that Siri is always useless and improvements are invisible.
AI is a technology, not a product. Consumers don't care about technologies, they care about what the product does versus what they currently have.
I think Jobs was an asshole, but one good thing I can say about him is that he understood the difference between technology and products. Imagine if they had called it the "iPod HDD."
Siri and Voice Control were both usable during the same time and it feels like it could work here too.
Totally agree that AI is just an implementation detail though. IMO that new product name should NOT have “AI” in it at all.
To prove my point, I opened a random date on the Apple website matching today's date to compare. 16 years ago, June 8 (1) Apple released the iPhone 4. There's still no room for jokes about that release, and from this perspective, calling their AI 'Apple Intelligence' feels weak compared to what they used to deliver.
I agree that some years ago Apple was the strongest in marketing, their brand team had been setting the bar for tech, but I simply can't say that anymore.
1. https://web.archive.org/web/20100608073904/http://www.apple....
The stock price definitely didn't like it though.
It's not even funny, it's not smart. It's like if they released MS Siri and said it's Mac System Siri.
For pedantry's sake, they were saying "AI = Apple Intelligence" last year as well, so it's not like they just pulled it out of their butts now that popular opinion has turned against AI.
It’s really disappointing to see the on-device models being limited to so few devices. And this was after the iPhone 16 and 16 Pro were marketed so heavily with supporting their now failed effort at AI.
> Apple’s most powerful on-device model and the features it enables, like expressive voices and more advanced dictation, […]
On other devices, I think there’s still on device support (just not with the “most powerful model”), for these devices:
> Apple Intelligence and Siri AI in iOS 27, iPadOS 27, macOS 27, watchOS 27, and visionOS 27 are available on iPhone 16 models or later, iPhone 15 Pro, iPhone 15 Pro Max, iPad mini (A17 Pro), MacBook Neo (A18 Pro), iPad models with M1 or later, Mac with M1 or later, Apple Vision Pro, Apple Watch Series 9 or later, Apple Watch Ultra 2 or later, and Apple Watch SE 3 when paired with an Apple Intelligence-enabled iPhone nearby.
This is from the footnotes on https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/apple-introduces-siri...
I do wish they’d been more clear about what the “advanced features” are :(
All the iPhone 16/Pro owners have been waiting for Apple Intelligence features announced from that WWDC 2 years ago. They didn't get delivered and now won't ever be delivered with on-device intelligence due to the 8GB RAM limitation.
iPhones have 12gb, current Neo has 8gb, the next gen Neo is speculated to have 12gb (as it'll be based on a later iPhone chip).
At first I thought it was the usual planned obsolescence. Then I realized it may be a true technical limitation. I suspect an embedding model is required to run on device in order to make several of the features work. Embedding models are small compared to LLMs, but, depending on their capabilities, could be the memory driver.
I really enjoy this lag. Apple with the whole DMA made iPhone completely dull to my eyes. Previously? Updated yearly. Now? 3+ years without replacement and probably will stick to it for next 2-3 years.
Sure maybe in US Apple is fun. But in EU it's.. boring (and not like a Golang boring, just boring)
(It’s been driving me crazy there’s no “AI this” button to discuss whatever is on my screen.)
Note: I have MS 365 personal or whatever it's called this week so I'm not sure how Copilot acts for a completely free user.
> Your data is never stored
> Used only for your requests
> Verifiable privacy promise
Apple is cooking. Although at that point might as well bring the cloud features to more devices. Yeah it costs more but also locks users in harder.
The interface for creating them manually has been so bad for so long, it feels clear to me that LLM-driven shortcut orchestration was always the endgame. Apple built up their ecosystem of composable "tools", and then trained an LLM on how to call them.
The result, IMO, is the first OpenClaw/Hermes competitor that's feasible for use by the general public.
Everyone with a paid Claude or ChatGPT that they're struggling to use to the fullest is going to have very little reason not to swap over to an upgraded iCloud+ plan (if they don't already have one). I suspect we're going to see mass cancellation of $20/mo plans very soon.
OpenAI's timing for removing their temporary increased usage limits is looking pretty unfortunate...
I have shortcuts set up to count the hours I log in my work Google calendar and copy them to my clipboard to help me prepare invoices.
So while I've already been sold on what Shortcuts can do, getting the general public to see the possibilities is probably gonna be a challenge.
1 is performance. It's slow. You can run one within the app and literally watch execution flow from one block to the next. Absurd, for the CPU power at hand.
2 is reliance on developers to deliberately implement hooks and "intents" when the developers of at least half of apps including most "big company" apps do not care to bother, often because 95% of their app's surface is actually cross-platform stuff.
Example: There are no shortcut actions for Google Calendar, and Gmail only has one real one which is a generic send email. No "search email" etc.
I'd rather see Apple lean into "computer use" to allow it to use any app that displays things on the screen, but IDK how you make that safe.
Pho is a pretty bad source of fiber.
It sucks that we're skipping over such good tools like cronometer.com to figure out what we're actually eating and going straight to hallucination, adding more confusion to nutrition.
But fundamentally, the real difference is they have now bought and white-labeled Gemini to replace all the stuff they failed to make 2 years ago.
Our family uses Siri with a HomePod a lot, and it's already much better than it was a couple of years ago where it could basically set timers, tell you the weather. Now it answers questions ("when did the Knicks last win an NBA championship") with decent answers, instead of "I'll send the web results to your phone". But it's still far behind voice-chatting with Claude in the Claude app, so very much looking forward to this upgrade.
I will say though that proper voice transcription in Claude -- or any of these agents -- sucks. If it can't understand the question properly, then it can't provide the right answer. It works okay for me, but not for my kids, not when speaking quickly or in incomplete sentences (as people tend to do), etc.
I still don't think Siri can do that ::angry::
I can't wait to take a photo of a cricket ball and ask it what it is, ffs.
These people need to get out, touch grass, watch trees swaying in the breeze, and put their phones down before they lose toonmany neurons.
What do you mean?
I still look at older MacOS screenshots and think a lot of it looks better, but directionally they are improving Liquid Glass.
At this point, “Siri” has a pretty strong cultural association with being underwhelming or unhelpful. Even if the new version is dramatically better, convincing people to give Siri another shot may be harder than launching the same technology under a new name.
Feels like a missed opportunity to reset expectations.
Wait... don't tell me... there is an App for that.
That’s what I expected from Siri but you can get in from ChatGPT .
Genius way to sell more phones
Really they are just selling on device Ai